flabberghaster

flabberghaster OP wrote

while having the "everyone else is a selfish asshole" mindset, is just psychologically untenable

Hard to draw any other conclusion

During the early part of the pandemic, everyone was saying "we're all in this together! Social distance, wear a mask, you're supposed to protect other people!" It was a great outpouring of support for collective action. It was wonderful.

But almost the minute the vaccines became available, people immediately shifted to saying, "oh, I'm safe from it, I don't need it. If you're vulnerable, I don't mind if you wear a mask but I am safe from it." Or "I already had it, so I don't mind."

While everyone felt they were in danger, it was a collective action problem that we all had to protect each other. As soon as people felt like they personally were safe from it, suddenly everyone else's health was their problem, don't tread on me.

The mask came off, literally.

I don't think people are inherently selfish, I just think we live in a poisonous, atomized and individualistic culture where thinking about others or taking steps to protect others at minor expense to yourself is just an alien concept to most people due to our upbringing.

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flabberghaster OP wrote

in any case i understand where youre coming from but public health does not come about by scolding individual people into changing their behaviour.

I agree, it won't work, but I'm just out here venting my frustration, not trying to pass a law.

fundamentally the advice from all the world governments and health agencies is that masking indoors is now largely unnecessary.

They are wrong

it makes me wonder if this is really about public health at all or if this is an easy shortcut for you to crudely write people off as uncaring. are you immunocompromised? do you know immunocompromised people

I know multiple people who are now long term disabled due to covid, and who've ended up in the hospital from it. And even if I didn't, why do I have to personally know someone with a condition in order to be allowed to care?

if there is value in people then it means you have to change things, and that's harder than retreating into doomer shit.

Don't call me a doomer who's looking for an excuse to check out just because I made a pissed off post. You presume way too much. I don't believe everyone on earth is a selfish monster, what I really believe is that I wish people would pay more attention and have more of a heart, and that I was pissed off and exaggerating.

also "the only thing you can do is source control" is obviously untrue. if that were the true there would be no point in wearing a mask when everybody else is going unmasked

One way masking is far less effective than everyone masking. Source control is the only real solution that you as an individual can take to prevent spreading the disease. Wearing a mask to protect yourself helps, but not nearly as much as if everyone is wearing one.

But yes, if no one else is bothering I can easily understand why one might decide it's futile and give up. I just think it's selfish to do so.

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flabberghaster OP wrote

The two meters thing is based on spit droplets but we know it's airborne now so it doesn't make much difference, the only thing you can do is source control, aka, a mask.

I don't blame you in particular because everyone in society is completely selfish and unwilling to take small steps to protect others, so it feels futile to keep doing it yourself. But I still think even given that, it's still selfish to not wear one.

Immune compromised people deserve to be able to go to the grocery store and the fact that people don't mask there makes that dangerous.

Why is it always the sick and vulnerable who have to shoulder the burden of everyone's minor comfort? It continues after almost four years to make me so angry how as a society we have just decided to let everyone die and become long term disabled. It's such a microcosm of this death cult of a culture we have where not even the smallest act of caring about others is permitted.

We have people conduct mass shootings at schools routinely but the response it OK well do mass shooter drills. We have an environmental Apocalypse, and the response is OK buy an electric car. We have a respiratory pandemic and the response is ok, get a vaccine if you want, I don't care.

No one cares! I feel like I'm going insane! We live in hell!

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flabberghaster wrote

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Clearly a "ceasefire" doesn't come close to enough. But that is the immediate demand, an end to the killing, right now, and it's still too much to ask for.

In a just world, we'd cut off all military aid to Israel and impose sanctions but that's just never going to happen.

But my personal pride doesn't matter, and the only benefit I could see to not-voting (or voting for Jill Stein) is to punish and pressure the Democratic party toward the left. But I don't see an argument for that being more effective than actually voting in Democrats and continuing to pressure them while they're in office.

I don't agree with this. I don't think "elect and then pressure" works if they know you're going to still vote for them. Marching in the streets doesn't do anything. Calling them doesn't do anything.

I don't begrudge people who do plan to still vote for them, but you're putting yourself in a very weak position to influence them if they know they're going to get what they want from you pretty much either way: your vote.

As well, I will not vote for them on principle, because they are actively assisting in a genocide. I don't care if the other guy's worse. If the lesser evil is doing a genocide then I'm out. That's it. Nothing will change my mind on this.

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