twovests OP wrote
Reply to comment by flabberghaster in we have a presidential election in a year so get ready to hear your favorite leftists reveal their south park roots by twovests
The thing is that a ceasefire is a pause in the genocide, not an end. It's not even a return to the status quo as of October 6th. A ceasefire is a compromise that still keeps things on the course toward genocide.
It falls far short from an acceptable way for things to be, it's less than a bare minimum, and yet it's still on the optimistic fringes of what could happen in the next week or month. That sucks!!
I'm still enthusiastically pro-ceasefire as a step off of the course of genocide. Same boat as you-- I'm disgusted my senators and my rep likewise haven't been able to call even for that.
But my personal pride doesn't matter, and the only benefit I could see to not-voting (or voting for Jill Stein) is to punish and pressure the Democratic party toward the left. But I don't see an argument for that being more effective than actually voting in Democrats and continuing to pressure them while they're in office.
flabberghaster wrote
Yeah, I agree with all of that. Clearly a "ceasefire" doesn't come close to enough. But that is the immediate demand, an end to the killing, right now, and it's still too much to ask for.
In a just world, we'd cut off all military aid to Israel and impose sanctions but that's just never going to happen.
But my personal pride doesn't matter, and the only benefit I could see to not-voting (or voting for Jill Stein) is to punish and pressure the Democratic party toward the left. But I don't see an argument for that being more effective than actually voting in Democrats and continuing to pressure them while they're in office.
I don't agree with this. I don't think "elect and then pressure" works if they know you're going to still vote for them. Marching in the streets doesn't do anything. Calling them doesn't do anything.
I don't begrudge people who do plan to still vote for them, but you're putting yourself in a very weak position to influence them if they know they're going to get what they want from you pretty much either way: your vote.
As well, I will not vote for them on principle, because they are actively assisting in a genocide. I don't care if the other guy's worse. If the lesser evil is doing a genocide then I'm out. That's it. Nothing will change my mind on this.
twovests OP wrote
I can't really blame you for how you feel here. I'm feeling pretty similarly. Choosing between two parties where the common ground is "genocide is good and we have an obligation to perpetuate it" is driving me insane.
At the same time, I can't realistically imagine any path to ending the genocide without the US democrats in control (on top of all the other things that are A Little Bit Better with dems). (Even then, I don't think it's realistic, or even plausible. Just far more likely than it coming from Republicans, and that as far more likely than something like a successful revolution with a better govt.)
I don't say this to convince you otherwise. If anything, I guess I might be convinced otherwise. If we're both in blue states, a vote for Jill Stein (mannn) might scare Dems by that fraction of a bit. Fuck it, let's vote for Jill Stein
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