emma

emma wrote

Reply to i found it by ellynu

which one of us will be the first to purchase this fine product, for the clout?

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emma wrote

I think Mastodon and other fediverse servers already require that your ISP allows outgoing email, since there would be no way for you to send your password reset or account verification emails

yeah this is true, but if you were to build a whole system around emails, then the contents would be arbitrary and the magnitude would be far greater, increasing the chance of running into problems with spam blacklists which ISPs hate to be on (see, for instance, digitalocean's spam policy)

And deliverability to providers like Gmail is not a big deal to me IMO either, if say Raddle can suddenly talk with people from riseup.net for example, that's a big win to me.

yeah this may or may not be an issue depending on exactly how the system works

Anyway you're the actual dev here who has way more experience doing server shit than me so maybe I'm just spouting some BS lol, so I will just defer to your wisdom :)

i don't think it's BS. i just foresee there being some problems with the idea, and i know from experience having worked with mail servers that it's something i personally never want to touch lol. but if this is a thing you want to build, then i think you should go for it, if only for the learning experience.

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emma wrote (edited )

ok, so, like, i think the hallmark of a well-designed system is that it's designed in such a way that the developers and operators it's targetting will be familiar with the basic concepts of that system. not necessarily domain details like "what should happen with this value in the BCC field", but like the transport (HTTP, SMTP), message exchange formats (JSON, XML, MIME), the tools needed to deploy the system (web servers, mail transfer agents), and such. in that regard, designing it around email is a mistake.

everyone uses email and it's been around forever, but the tools around it are absolutely archaic and alien-like by today's standards. if you ever have the displeasure of configuring a postfix server for some purpose and have to learn what a "milter" is, you'll see what i mean. you will also have to contend with ISP blocks on outgoing email, delivering email to major providers which are incredibly anal about what mail they will accept, not knowing if mail was delivered successfully, and so on. you also need some mechanism for accessing an archive of messages which typically (for mailing lists) means having an NNTP server and then dealing with even more archaicness on top of it all.

on the other hand, the type of developer who would be interested in making a federated forum would likely already be familiar with HTTP, REST concepts, JSON, how to set up a dev environment, the tools you want to use for testing, the libraries you want to use for building the server, and so on. i believe mastodon is successful because it leverages HTTP, enabling any power-tripping 17-year-old furry and their dad to set up their own instance on a $5 VPS, and creating a healthy developer ecosystem thanks to being made with protocols that are already familiar to anyone who's had the misfortune of working extensively with microservices, which is a fair amount of us.

all this said, i think it was a mistake to use JSON-LD for ActivityPub. i think we'll see more competing protocols, but i'm certain that any even moderately successful competitor would be built on HTTP. anything else in this day and age is just a non-starter.

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emma wrote

yeah, this has me seriously thinking about bailing for good. i felt a little motivated to take up active development again, and then this shit happens. i want to cuddle with my cats and play zelda and watch the friends dvd box set that i bought for some reason, not do more programming work on top of my day job just for other people to rip it off with no appreciation for the countless hours that went into problem solving and continuously improving things

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emma wrote

Reply to crouton.net by ___

wtf i love this website

more websites should have italic black on white times new roman

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