A response to "this is my trauma" that I dislike very much (CW: CSA, violence)

Submitted by twovests in venting (edited )

"I'd like to remove her kneecaps."

"He should be killed by shoving a rod shoved up his ass through his brain."

"She should be slowly tortured to death."

These are (almost) real things people have said to me when I told them about someone who abused me. What the fuck, right? These are sadistic violent fantasies people have shared with me, completely unprompted, in response to my trauma.

I don't want to accept someone elses violent fantasy on my behalf. It's deeply offensive -- but also just incorrect, coming from a mindset of retributive justice.

But it also informs a lot about their character: They're not just saying, "I believe retribution is good and should happen" (stupid), but also "My first reaction to you telling me you were seuxally abused is that I started fantasizing about torture," (disgusting) and also "I find it satisfying to imagine torture," (evil) and "I assume you must too, because you were sexually abused." (offensive)

I've heard people say "they deserve to die" over relatively minor violations of consent (like someone who kissed me without asking). Like, holy shit, is that how you view people? There's no way you would ever own up to your own bad behavior if you really think that deserves the death penalty.

And this is one of the only things that turn usually-normal people this sadistic. The "they deserve to die" person is someone who I understand texts while speeding. (Behavior which, on the measure, is certainly far more deserving of death. Driving is a solemn and grave responsibility.)

I'm not even a pacifist. All life is connected like a beautiful tree, and like a tree, some branches might be cut such that more fruitful ones can flourish. But I don't think peoples violent reactions are coming at this from a greatest-good mindset.

And, yeah, I can understand being told this by another 20 year old who's never been put into situations. I'm sure I've said some things like "wow he deserve to die" too. But it's exhausting to hear it from people in the late 20s, early 30s, etc.

tldr: I am just a little creature and I think torture is always bad

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hollyhoppet wrote

i do think there is something severely wrong with Are Society's relationship with excessive punitive violence. if you've ever been party to violence like that, including possibly death, it's like.... once you kill somebody they're gone forever. once you traumatize someone through torture they're traumatized for the rest of their life. is that really a just punishment, if there are other ways to prevent them from doing harm?

i think a lot about my abusive dad and i'm just glad he's out of my life so that he can only inflict his abusive misery on himself. like i wouldn't mind him getting punched in the face for what he's done but torture? death? what does that evens serve?

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hollyhoppet wrote

ah. ah i think part of it is like... i don't want them punished. i just want them to be better or at least unable to harm anyone.

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twovests OP wrote

(awh i had a nice big response to you here but my browser updated and lost it)

I agree with the perspective of prevention. I think people (even ones who have done bad things) have utility, and preventing them from causing further harm (rehabilitation, etc.) is what we'd have in a more ideal society.

But, and I hope this isn't too personal... I have to admit some merit in wishing death, I think. (Sans suffering or sadism.) Before your dad was out of your life, did you ever wish he were dead?

Like, I cut my abusive mom (+family) off in 2019. She made threats that had me on edge for months, but she was also in bad health. I have to admit that the fact she could die any day really kept me optimistic.

She was lying about her bad health and is still alive, but years have passed and I feel safer now. But I still admit that I'd feel safer.

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hollyhoppet wrote (edited )

my dad? no, he's pathetic, powerless, and has had know way to know who or where i am for ten years. but there certainly are harmful individuals who i do wish were dead, if you know what i mean.

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devtesla wrote (edited )

I agree with this vent, entirely. The downstream effect of this level of violent rhetoric is that very few people who commit csa are actually prosecuted, for a few reasons. It essentially means that someone has to be fully dehumanized in front of a jury in order to be convicted, because they can't imagine anyone but the worst committing the crime. It means survivors aren't believed when their abuser is someone who is respected in a community. For children specifically, they often have a complex relationship with their abuser, and may not come forward to specifically because they don't see their abuser in this way.

It's also tied up in with the idea that someone who has been abused has been "ruined" in some way. I can always understand someone who has been through this kind of thing not talking about it, because they don't want to be perceived as a victim and have everything they do interpreted by others as an effect of the abuse.

I don't think this is going to get better either. The rhetoric in the air is just to call everyone you disagree with a pedophile, and then use that to talk up your righteousness as a person who's against pedophilia. While not really doing anything about it! They seem to only exist as a boogeyman. So yeah, you're totally justified to say something like "I don't need your violent fantasies" or something, because that's not really a justifiable way to act.

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twovests OP wrote

(i had a nice big response to you here but i updated my browser and lost it)

I appreciate your response here and agree with you too. I've been thinking of "Everyone I Don't Like Is A Pedophile" for awhile now (especially with Elon Musk's "pedo guy" thing in 2018).

"They seem to only exist as a boogeyman" hits the nail on the head. On the other side, if you argue, "Wait, pedophiles are just normal people, you can't identify one by their vibes," it sounds like you're just trying to humanize them in their defense.

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devtesla wrote

Something I believe very strongly is that people deserve rights no matter what they have done. Our current system where abuse inflicted upon incarcerated people is informally considered part of punishment for a crime is just not acceptable in any way. That might be an easier path to argue than directly for the human rights of pedophiles, Lol.

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nomorepie wrote

Im sorry you have been getting such inappropriate responses after sharing your trauma. Sharing is brave and you deserve compassionate listeners.

I have not been in this situation myself, but one thing I observed in the general discourse is people's outsized reactions to SA and especially CSA, but even animal cruelty, which to me always feels more like, and I hate to use this expression, virtue signaling. Like "oh I'm not the person who would think something like that is ever okay", idek if I'm explaining this right but this irks me even from my "ideological fellows" such as they are

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