Submitted by twovests in just_post

part 0: my penance

about two or three years ago i made a post like "cr*ptocurrencies are good actually"

i was very wrong! this is because i am a computer fool who was taken in by the swan song of cool technology. i was that "wow! cool robot!" meme. there are some things i will stand by. (to be fair, the robot itself is very cool)

btw, this post is unrelated to FTX falling (which is very funny! lol! anyways there have been constant computercoin disasters that i don't care about, because that's not the cool part of the cool robot.)

part 1: why cryptocurrencies seemed so cool

i learned about cryptocurrencies way early on, like in 2011, because i had zero friends and was very online. tragically, i was a child, and did not have $10 to play around with. if i did, i would be a cryptocoin millionaire and also i'd probably have physically transitioned and also would have gotten a lot of medical procedures done.

but as i said, i'll stand by some of that "cool robot" stuff! there are all these creative proof-of-X concepts, like proof-of-storage, which could do something neat! you have eth*reum and others which provide a type of virtual machine on the ledger itself! and you see so so many of your favorite and obscure datastructures and cryptographic primitives: merkle trees, zk-snarks, etc. (And yeah, proof-of-stake / eth 2.0 is here, but that was never really in question)

and there's legitimately so much cool work, it's just such a cool sounding platform to build on!

there's a few problems:

  1. u need $$$$ to actually deploy a dapp you "own" in a meaningful way. (as in, close to "start your own ISP" money)

  2. 99% of your peers will be insane snakeoil salesmen

  3. (also all of the other tiny problems, like solidity language being bad. like, imagine actually using it? lmao)

Anyway, there are a few things a cryptocurrency (or similar construction) could solve! (E.g. It'd be straightforward to require payment for receipt of email, like a stamp. This would reduce spam and would be a natural usecase for netbucks.) And I wouldn't be surprised to see parts of their architectures picked apart for real-world uses. (E.g. A non-decentralized ledger with web-of-trust or CAs in place of a consensus mechanism just for recording transactions.)

The only thing that cryptocurrencies help with are private payments, but this takes extensive domain knowledge in (1) opsec (2) money laundering and (3) using cryptocurrencies.

Anyways, the point of this is that cryptocurrencies are bad even at their best / most technically justifiable use cases!

part 2: why cryptocurrencies are bad at their best

Exhibit A is the Eth*reum Name Service. It's a pretty straightforward DNS-equivalent and has solid technical foundations. I can find no fault with it except for the people. The problem is simple: Anyone can mint an ENS name and auction it off. So, you have wikipedia.eth and a myriad other domains bought by the earliest bidder to be resold.

Any big name that might have some interest in decentralized apps (like wikis or games) are suddenly being held hostage by snakeoil nerds. The platform has little-to-no profit incentive, and when you put a three-to-five figure barricade up, who's gonna give a shit?

The funny thing here is this: Despite strong tech foundations, ENS is useless because the only people using it are scam-artists.

part 3: how NFTs fail to meet their meager standard

Exhibit B is NFTs, which are hilariously worse!

The reason they are worse is that (1) like other aspects of cryptocurrencies, they have some contrived use cases, but (2) unlike other aspects, these use cases still make sense even if your peers are selling snakeoil. For example,

  • Conferring ownership of rare items in a dead MMO. (E.g. If Runescape died today, minting "partyhat NFTs" for each partyhat owner would actually make sense.)
  • As a replacement or augmentation for notary services. (This is one tangible benefit! Being able to self-notarize. But that's not sexy/profitable enough.)
  • As a replacement for existing key-signing / web-of-trust infrastructure. (It's like if we took PGP, made it 10x harder to access, 100x sillier, and 1000x more expensive. This is not an improvement!)
  • As a framework for sharing items between games? I guess? (Is JSON not good enough?)
  • Used in part with legal contracts for conferring ownership of IP.

This last one is the most interesting. Used in the best possible way, an NFT should provide an easy-to-verify timestamped hash claiming ownership of the data which yields that hash. An artist could, feasibly, upload their artwork to their own site/service, while also minting an NFT to claim ownership. The art is licensed (or rights transferred entirely) to whoever owns the NFT.

The problems with the majority of NFTs get increasingly funny:

  • This is legally risky, for being unproven. That's not itself a flaw!
  • But this legal framework is not used on popular NFT services! You don't own the property rights to the NFTs you buy any more than I own the right to Pikachu for owning a Pikachu card.
  • Worse, these NFT services only store URLs not hashes. This kills any of the purported benefits an NFT could bring.
  • Even worse worse are the rest of the problems: The (former) environmental costs, the (existing) costs of minting, and all the outright stealing/plagiarized works.

Lol! But, wait: I promised to tell you that NFTs are funny because they can be useful, despite being used for scams in practice.

part 4: looking at the legit use case for NFTs is even funnier

But what about all the other usecases? Well, no big MMOs have died and reimbursed players with NFTs yet, nobody is seriously using it for cryptographic infrastructure (LMAO COULD YOU IMAGINE), no "real games" are using it (yes, im gatekeeping candypop bubblesock saga), and nobody is using it to confer IP.

The *one* use case that is used in practice is self-notarization. No qualms or jokes about it, if you want to self-notarize a document, you can use cryptocurrencies, and if you've used online notary services, you might have done this already.

The funny thing is? You don't need NFTs to notarize! You can notarize in any transaction.

Even funnier? You don't need eth*reum to notarize! You can notarize in any transaction (on basically any major cr*ptocoin). You don't need the "smart contract" capability of eth*reum.

The only benefit that "the bl*ckchain" brings is that, at any given time, there are a few thousand (or tens of thousands) of servers out there that can verify your self-notarized document. It's likely some kind backups of "the ledger" will exist for a few decades, even after all cr*ptocoins officially die in 2029.

part 5: git will still be around after all computercoins die in 2029

As I said above, there are some neat, creative, and new ideas that came from all the sad motherfuckers who wasted years of their life building up their favorite cyberdollars. I expect all of these to be stolen and repeated, including the ability to self-notarize.

See, the reason the self-notary works is because (1) merkle tree (2) decentralized and (3) duplicated on a lot of machines.

DNS, Git, and certificate authorities each get us 90% of the way there. Git's the best candidate, because all it'd require is replacing the SHA-1 commits with something better, like SHA-256(SHA-256(x)). (That's not a buttcoin reference! Doublehashing is useful for mitigating length extension attacks.) That, and collaborate with second-parties to maintain duplication of the git history.

So, what's the TLDR / ELI5?

Cryptocurrencies over over over over promise and under under under deliver. Every ounce of passionate technical work is surrounded by a ton of investhit snakemen. Where they does deliver, it's primarily in "extremely contrived use-cases that aren't used in practice", often better-served by existing infrastructure.

One exception is making private payments. Computercoins can add a sliver of extra privacy! But you need to Already Know How To Do This in order to not footgun yourself here. Given this is the bare minimum use case, you'd think this shouldn't be prohibitively difficult!!

The other exception is "self notarization", which allows you to prove that you had a document with contents X and a given time. This is the literal one and only use case! And that's hilarious! To have this cyberpunk-libertarian-computercoin-netbeanz-utopia reduced to a notary service is HILARIOUS!

As it stands, cr*ptocurrencies actually provide a really convenient infrastructure for that. (But that infrastructure could exist without cr*ptocurrencies, and we're 90% of the way there with Git.)

5

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

neku wrote

Conferring ownership of rare items in a dead MMO. (E.g. If Runescape died today, minting "partyhat NFTs" for each partyhat owner would actually make sense.)

i mean i understand that some people are into this but like... the party hat is gone. whats the point of possessing some intangible digital certificate denoting the holder as someone who had something once. i just dont understand the thought process here. outside of speculation i dont see why anyone would go to the effort

5

twovests OP wrote (edited )

So, before I wrote this post, I assumed partyhats were worth a few hundred USD max. (This was true ~2006.) I just learned they're valued thousands USD by raw GP value alone, and up to tens of thousands.

I would absolutely take an NFT (or other stupid asset) for free if I believed I could sell it for money.

Anyways, back to my comment...

Before speaking about NFTs:

I think of a partyhat like an old screenshot from a 2009 desktop, or an ancient phpBB or usenet archive. It's emblematic of a particular part of internet culture. Unfortunately, I was one of those horrible kids who spent a lot of their formative years on things like Runescape.

This is a bit pathetic, but I wanted a partyhat, and if I had one, I wouldn't let it go! [edit: see above, i'd totally let it go.] If I had one, and Runescape was going down, I'd do everything I could to prove to others that my Runescape bank has a partyhat. Screenshots, videos, etc.

Importantly, partyhats were never conceived as a rare collectible item. It was a stupid dinky one-off holiday item. I don't think any of the Gowers conceived their hats would be worth literal hundreds of dollars thousands of dollars. This adds legitimacy in my eyes.

Now, to speak on NFTs: If Runescape died and they were offering a "certificate of partyhat", I'd like that, in whatever form it takes. This is because of my personal flaws and nostalgia. [edit: also because i could sell it to a nerd for money.] This is one use case where an NFT wouldn't be a bad choice. The major benefit would be that you have a silly infrastructure for verifying ownership. (That said, I'd prefer a shiny partyhat plaque instead.)

(Also, Jagex truncates passwords to 20 characters and are not case sensitive. This weakens any ad-hoc cryptographic construction one might imagine using a users password hash as a public key.)

To be clear, I'm not defending NFTs! It's a nearly pointless use case. I'd also use a Juicero if I happened to have one and also somehow got 1000 fresh juicero bags. I'd also use a Juicero box as a footrest.


EDIT: You have found a secret Twovests Bonus Comment!

Clarifying my positions on Christmas, part two

CW: sexual abuse, drug abuse, childhood abuse, dark humor, weaponized therapy, osdd, christmas


when people talk about being "jokerified" they usually talk about becoming disillusioned with reality, NOT about being so traumatized that they lose grasp on what's acceptable to find funny.

my childhood was abusive in all the sorts of ways it can be. physically, emotionally, mentally, drugs kind of, sexually. sometimes the abuse would incidentally be funny, but you can't talk to anyone about that. you can't say "hey, this thing happened which was funny," when the context is too awful to write.

like, i got grounded for being molested! that is kind of funny. someone tell me that ISN'T funny.

but, also, the age i was is a vanishingly small fraction of the age i am now. if someone ELSE told me about a seven year old who got grounded for being molested, i think i would need to physically fight the urge to vomit.

but looking back? it was kind of funny.

so some would say "you should go to therapy about it," and i did.

but the funny thing is that going to therapy made my life worse and had repercussions which pretty negatively impacted a half-dozen people. therapists are police, and their weapons have a blast radius

i think it's pretty funny that i went to therapy for trauma, and that became one of the traumatic events of my life. that's a little funny dammit!

so, without therapy, i turned to drugs. my parents often plied us with huge doses of melatonin, but i would refuse anything else. tylenol, ibuprofen, etc.

in the year 2015 i had coffee for the first time, and it had an excellent antidepressive effect on me. in the year 2017, i tried alcohol, and it had an excellent depressive effect on me. in the year 2019 and 2020, i accidentally had huge doses of weed two times, and it had a silly effect on me.

in 2021, i tried antidepressants for the first time, and even half the minimum dose absolutely fucked me up. i gained 10lbs in like a week, and my synesthesia (more on that later) became a permanent and obtrusive aspect of my life. sounds will, for lack of better description, obscure my ability to see, and vice versa.

in 2022, i tried lsd for the first time, and it didn't really do anything except give me lockjaw and make visual snow more apparent. it temporarily turns the obtrusive elements of my synesthesia into something unescapable. so i do not do lsd anymore

it's at this point i should note i have a lot of brain things that sound cool on a tumblr blog, but are actually quite obtrusive. autism of course, "plurality" too, synesthesia (especially audiovisual), and of course, exploding head syndrome.

plurality is the worst part. i thought i was fine until i started journaling and learned i had memory lapses. oops!! it's really obstructed my ability to be there for the people in my life

but over these years, i found that there was only one constant in my life that was good. posting

the thing is is that, despite all this, i am doing better than anyone i know. i'm not abusing drugs, i'm physically fit, i'm eating well, i'm drinking water, i'm sleeping regularly. my executive function and focus is unparalleled among my peers. i am more level headed than anyone else i know. i am not reliant on any medications or therapists. and i am financially secure, something i never thought i'd be able to say.

i am thriving in a way that makes me feel almost guilty to say. like, i have friends who are 30 years old, believe in ghosts, don't floss, and can't make phone calls. i'm not gonna listen to them when they tell me to try therapy again.

i owe this all to posting. it is the one meditative practice that one must do. posting is just journaling, but you expose your ugly underside to trusted anonymites. like, i was lightly molested two weeks ago during an orgy, and i shrugged it off. i'm just that mentally healthy. (and i think that's kind of funny)

posting is the sacred and daily practie that brings one closer to the ideal state of humanity. posting is not just beautiful, posting is beauty

and the opposite of posting? why... that's christmas

1

twovests OP wrote

ps:

there's no technical reason computercoins would die in 2029 i just think it'd be funny

2

ellynu wrote

i think it'll happen at 03:14:08 on 19 January 2038

2