Important Children's Media Thoughts: why I like the stuff

Submitted by Moonside in just_post

So I have been a Steven Universe, Adventure Time, studio Ghibli, Moomins, EarthBound etc. fan for a little while. It's a small proportion of media I consume, though, but nonetheless today I stumbled upon a couple of relevant Twitter threads:

  1. Gita Jackson on how Marvel films absolutely are kids' films and that's ok
  2. @appleciderwitch musing on why it's a thing

I'm in broad agreement with both of the threads. Plots, characterizations and themes are simpler by necessity (though none of these is some absolute yard stick of merit in art), but I think there's some appeal in these things that wasn't really explored. The latter thread alluded to the progressive themes being worked into the children's media, but I think there's other appeal as well that I'd totally would like to see in grown up media:

  1. Steven Universe pretty much is an utopian science fiction cartoon, in which sexism, racism, homophobia is pretty much not even a part of history. It's a fitting thing for a kids' show as they don't have a historical frame of reference as adults would has, but for me that sort of prefiguration of a more just society would be interesting in adult media as well. I am slightly getting fatigued by dystopian fables at this point, personally. Of course there's a long history for utopian thinking, but just a bit more upbeat visions of future would be interesting as well.
  2. The Simpsons wasn't a children's show by intent, but it was watched as one by a ton of children. One aspect that is kid friendly yet I would like to see more of is was that its satire was somewhat light-hearted - the targets were criticized as fools rather than evil. It's not that there isn't evil that frankly needs to be called out, but the former kind of satire has possibilities the latter doesn't have. Like the classic episode in which Bart gets an elephant can be read as metaphor for voters electing GOP candidates and is in the end quite harsh in a subtle way, but that wouldn't really have been possible if the premise wasn't so silly.
  3. Occasionally children's media can reject assumptions and respectability norms that restrict prestige media just by ignoring them totally. They don't really even have to explain anything to get away with it! You can see this even in lowbrow media: there are silly films about vampire hunting and the US civil war that make it explicit that the confederacy was about slavery where as some more prestigious productions become about "timeless" themes of war. Similarly Adventure Time is honestly like the only piece of media that I am aware of that is genuinely post human and the explanation for a long time were the opening frames of the title sequence. (Talk about economical story telling!) Or the one episode that where the plot was resolved in about 7 minutes and the remainder was philosophical reflection - that's not the professional kind of a three act structure.
  4. There's craftmanship outside of plotting, characterization and themes that I would like to see more of in grown up media. Animation as a medium is one giant example. If you want to see artsy stuff, you're going to have to limit yourself to short form animation a lot of the time due to economic limitations. As a lesser one, I'd love to see the care that went to SU soundtrack in a live action show. (Or the unflinching commitment to being goofy that AT's incidental music had.) For some reason, excellence in these is allowed to fly under the radar for kids stuff!
  5. Colors. This is a simple one, but I'd love to see more genuinely colorful media in general. It's one of the reasons why Do the Right Thing (1988) is such a memorable film to me. Its end would lose impact if there hadn't been contrast. I don't know why, but adult media is oftentimes too muted and grey as if a little color tainted the whole production.

So to sum it up, my interest in the children's media that I genuinely enjoy is more about that it by happenstance has many things that I'd like to see more of but don't know how to find in grown up media. It's not just about comfort and progressive themes by any means. Though I am fine with those too. It's also not that I somehow avoid "challenging" works as I'm always working through one of those.

It doesn't help how media is marketed. If I wanted to move laterally from Adventure Time to some grown up post-human fiction, it's kind of difficult. Watching yet another gritty crime film though? That is easy as the markets are set up towards segregation, not making connections.

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devtesla wrote

I was nodding along with your post and thinking to myself "hmm yes... this is why I watch anime", I have recs if you want

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Moonside OP wrote

Yeah, totally, With a tiny synopsis too if you feel so inclined, but no pressure. I think you got my big picture gripes so don't worry about recommend animes similar to the media I explicitly named. Anime is quite foreign to me so I don't have prejudice towards any particular kind, positive or negative.

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devtesla wrote

One of the shows that came up in my head while reading this is both seasons of Gatchaman Crowds, which is this big colorful action show that takes a wild twist into basically undermining the entire premise of superheroes into a more collectivist message. I don't agree with everything it says, but I think it's a great example of how anime can be bold and confrontational in ways that I don't see a lot. It's worth getting mad at lol. The music is really good too.

I'm a big fan of GC's director, Kenji Nakamura. He's done a horror show called Mononoke that's incredibly rad and a fun fishing show called Tsuritama. You'd have to pirate it but Welcome to Irabu's Office is super special to me, it's a very weird satire about psychiatry that ends up shockingly kind.

I'm a big fan of slow slice-of-life shows so I'm gonna list a couple. These shows mix bright colors, sweet energy, and dry humor.

Yurucamp: Cool camping theme, the main character is cool cause she isn't super sociable but gets slowly added to the larger group in a way that's respectful and fun to watch.

Flying Witch: This one stands out for a lot of jokes that are very funny but like, surprisingly mean, like mean in a way that only people who didn't have to worry about much would be. It's a dynamic I really like.

K-ON: The joke in this is that they're a band who don't really play instruments that much. It's a good joke that kind of evolves into what the whole show is about.

Non Non Biyori: Set in a rural village that has depopulated, so that all the grades up to high school are in one classroom. All the characters have fun dynamics but there's also this melancholy over everything that's fairly well done.

Hidamari Sketch: This one's in an art high school, it was super influential on the style and is just generally inventive.

I'm gonna end with one last big rec and it's A Place Further than the Universe, it's an incredibly good like, youth drama about Antartica. It's big and emotional and sweeps you along in unexpected ways. It rules so much.

Uhh I'm getting on too long but Masaaki Yuasa owns owns owns and his work is interesting in the way it uses the lower expectations for anime in order to take animation into wilder directions. He's a genius.

Anime owns thank you for reading this!

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Moonside OP wrote

I had to get this out of the system as I've been thinking about it for a while. If I had thought for a little while longer, I might have put something about EarthBound in as well, but I have hard time putting my finger on what's the appeal of it to me.

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ellynu wrote

have you played mother 1 and mother 3 also? i love all three of those games so much

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Moonside OP wrote

I have! I haven't finished M1 because my old computer got borked and before that cataclysmic event, I got bored of playing console games on a keyboard. I'll get back to it when I finally buy a console controller to hook up into a computer!

But yes, they are special to me. They're like Calvin and Hobbes to me, except I didn't get to experience them as a kid. I wonder if I had turned around a little bit different if I had done so. There's gentle wisdom in them unlike in almost any other game.

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devtesla wrote (edited )

I don't know if Earthbound is a "kids" game but it definitely was played by kids, at least in Japan. I think EB's status as a cult game here makes it easy to forget that RPGs were much more mainstream in Japan when it came out.

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ellynu wrote

on the back of the packaging for mother 2 it said “children will become adults and adults will become children.”

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Moonside OP wrote

Yeah, I just chose to not make a distinction between all-ages and children's media. There's a kernel of truth in it that there's plenty of children's media that's basically unbearable to anyone not in the target audience, but I feel that often any children's stuff that actually appeals to older audiences as well gets relabeled as 'all-ages' so it works as a term of praise more than anything. Here's an interesting and short blog post how this "domestication" works by taking the critical rave Adventure Time received as an example.

I don't take issue with 'all-ages' in general though, I'm just feeling ambivalent about it. Ryan North explained his approach to all-ages comics writing as that there's no swearing and everyone keeps their clothes on, which just lets everyone enjoy the stories without condescension toward children. That I can appreciate.

But if you want to make a distinction, EB was pretty explicitly of the latter kind as its tagline in Japanese was "[a]dults, children, and even older sisters." Apparently by the time Super Famicom rolled around, RPGs had already lost some of their popularity in the mainstream, especially with women and girls.

I didn't write about EB since I honestly don't have a good take on why I like it in the first place and what's something I'd like to see more of in grown up media. The feeling is real, but I don't have a conceptual clarity. Maybe one thing is that EB is surprisingly melancholic in its way yet it comes in cute, colorful package. That would be something I'd like it, but cute is verboten for grown ups, it seems!

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ellynu wrote

i really like this bit from an interview itoi did after mother 2 came out:

"Do you have a message for M2 players?"

"Back then, my older sister—who was even more of an amateur—played the game. But lately, girls don’t play games. Nowadays people are starting to think of video games as uncool. People who play pick-up basketball games and rap just don’t play games, you know. At this rate, gaming is going to turn into something limited to nerdy conventions and stuff. So I want the older sisters of the world to come back to playing video games. But kids, on the other hand, I’d rather scold about playing too many video games (laughs). The Famicom is fun, but it’s about at the level of a TV show. When all is said and done, it’s the people who are funny. It’s not like there’s a person out there who is limited to 24 megabits. There are billion-megabit people just idling around. Experiencing outrageous things outside, having adventures—it’s fun because people like that play the Famicom. I’d like to make a game that those people can enjoy."

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Moonside OP wrote

Yeah that's one of the things I've like about the children's media I listed. Here, for example, surely the basic message is something you've certainly heard before, but it's altogether a different thing to put a fresh and different spin on it. And if that isn't done, it will die and wither away. I swear the coffee and tea break text scrolls are genuinely the most uplifting messages I've ever received from a video game. And EB has a habit of making you/Ness alone, scared and vulnerable, and instead of turning it into a PSA about how life is dangerous and you really ought to stay at home and listen to your mom, it lets you/Ness still have lots of fun with friends. Yet after victory it's all "I gotta go back to being a normal 13 old kid again!" The aspirational and realistic aspects are well balanced, in the end, so despite the outlandish events it's emotionally realistic while being upbeat.

The Famicom is fun, but it’s about at the level of a TV show. When all is said and done, it’s the people who are funny. It’s not like there’s a person out there who is limited to 24 megabits. There are billion-megabit people just idling around. Experiencing outrageous things outside, having adventures—it’s fun because people like that play the Famicom. I’d like to make a game that those people can enjoy."

Yeah this rules! I'm reminded how in the game after victory, you can go talk to all the characters. How in line with the quote is that?! It's proof how deeply Itoi thought about the appeal of the game and its message.

A similar part on Mother 3 that I've enjoyed is the following:

Why did you give Duster a bad leg?

Itoi I figure that because there are handicapped people in our world, it would also be part of the world of MOTHER 3. After all, there's no way that any two people have the same physique or even the same personality. Just like with the Magypsies, I included Duster so we could have someone with bad breath, a disabled leg, and living as a thief. The MOTHER 3 world is all about having friends like them. Perhaps you could call them symbols of not rejecting such people.

If you haven't read it yet, this interview about how HAL Laboratory's logo came into being is pretty great. It's amazing what an intuitive understanding Itoi has behind the logo.

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