Submitted by twovests in games (edited )

Describing Hades 2 makes it sound like shovelware

Hades 2 is a roguelite deckbuilderlite hack-n-slash dungeon crawler with farming mechanics, a fishing minigame, and yes - you can pet the dog.

It checks all the boxes of being a fantastically mediocre game. By description, it sounds like a color-by-numbers indie game. "You can pet the dog!" Cool, but are you bringing anything to the table?

It turns out, yes. It's actually quite good.

I hate roguelikes and deckbuilding mechanics, but I especially dislike when elements in a game feel like a checkbox afterthought meant to appease Reddit Froth.

So, it makes no sense for me to pick up Hades 2. I didn't even like Hades 1 that much.

Plus, Hades 2's gameplay is not all that special as far as hack-n-slash roguelikes go, but that's only because there are so many well-tuned roguelikes out there.

Hades 2 shines in being a vehicle for okay good art, nice good writing, but fantastically context-aware writing with top-notch voice acting.

(edits - clarifications)

Hades 2 is more of a storybook

Every run feels alive. You don't just enter a dungeon with procedurally generated encounters. Sometimes you meet Bimsley the Fucker or whatever, and it changes the mood of the entire run. And it turns out he's your uncle who helped your father kill a man in a back alley. Everything changes at (what feels like) a pretty satisfying pace.

You start a run not so you can reach two floors deeper or so you can grind giblets, you start a run because you might see some sexual tension between the main character and Blorbo the Slimer. You hope they become girlfriends.

There is so much unique dialogue in this game, and I've not ran into one instances where the dialogue came off strange or funny by accident. That's the really technically impressive part of this.

HADES GOTY? LLMs BTFO

The "promise" of txt2txt natural language models was in being able to generate appropriate dialogue on the fly, indefinitely, within the realm of the gameplay knowledge. It's a simpler problem to model what game state various characters would be privy to than it is to model that and write a lot of it by hand.

I think it's coming, and it's going to suck really really bad for awhile, before it becomes even kind of okay.

But the Hades 2 devs were able to create a game with seemingly endless context-appropriate dialogue anyways. It is very impressively cohesive. I think LLMs could be used to approximate the technological feat they've accomplished here within a few years, but definitely not the depth and soul of the writing. The Hades 2 devs have raised the bar for the quality of the writing and voice acting, even higher than they did in Hades 1.

(That said, this is a videogame, not a book. Temper your expectations.)

Hades 2 Has An Option for Me, the Hater

The best thing in Hades 2 is "God Mode". Remember at the top, when I said I don't like this genre? Specifically, I don't enjoy the core gameplay loop as much as you need to.

"God Mode" is the "I don't like this genre but I want to play the game" mode. I wish I activated it from the start. It reduces the number of times you run through the same content.

When you activate God Mode at any time, you a gain a 20% damage reduction, which grows by 2% each run, capping at 80% (or an optionally lower %). It's not nearly as powerful as the name implies.

Even though Hades II is much better than its contemporaries in the genre, I still quickly found it repetitive and grindy. One or two runs was enough for me, thanks. I need to do dozens?

If that sounds like a relatively minor boost, that's because it is. You still need to play the game, but it should tip the scales.

tldr?

Hades 2 is a sequel to Hades. Very good if you liked Hades but wanted more of Hades. Also, it has "God Mode", the "Hater's Delight", which I highly recommend if you don't like the idea of playing the same levels 50 times in a row, but maybe want to play them 10 times in a row.

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devtesla wrote

I'm not fully sure why you're thinking of large language models when talking about supergiant's context aware dialog. They've done this kind of thing for fifteen years and it's a mix of game making craft and writing that's so intertwined together that I'm not even sure where a LLM would fit in. Trying to replicate this with one feels like something a CEO would barge in and tell people to do and burn out an entire studio trying. Like what's happening at my job right now Lol

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twovests OP wrote (edited )

Oh yeah, we're in agreement. I mean that Hades delivers seemingly endless dialogue by just having so much of it. I made the comparison because that's the promise that these LLM companies are trying to sell, sans the writers.

I want to be clear I think that the first games with LLM characters are going to be hilariously bad. Then the rest that come next will be bad, but it'll stop being funny.

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oolong wrote

what exactly would take hades 2 from okay art to good art because "okay art"??????,???,????????

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twovests OP wrote

Ah sorry that was bad editing on my part. I removed a whole part lol

I meant that the art is very nice and there's a lot of good illustrations. They're mostly secondary to the game; it could have far fewer illustrations with much less art and still be mostly the same game.

Hades 2 shines in being a vehicle for okay art, nice writing, and fantastically context-aware writing with top-notch voice acting.

I should have worded this better. Compared to other games, Hades II already has a normal amount of investment in the visual arts (which is a lot as a baseline!), and better writing than other games. The context-aware writing makes it stand out from other games, which is impressive for how much content it has but also for how coherent it is.

The voice acting is also very good. It is really impressive that it never feels unnatural, because it's two-people-taking-turns-talking dialogue, which is unnatural to begin with.

I had a whole part on this which I scrapped. But the illustrations are all really good and are part of the rewards of playing the game. It just doesn't stand out as much as the other good things about the game.

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